November 27, 2001

Editor,

I am currently in the market for a new Dolby Digital receiver, and I have narrowed my choices to four: the Denon AVR-1802, NAD T-751, Marantz SR5200 and the Outlaw Audio 1050. I have heard good and bad things about all of these receivers, and I am having a hard time deciding. Some of these are relatively low powered, and I'm concerned they won't be able to drive my speakers -- Paradigm Mini Mk 3 SE fronts, CC300 center, Atoms for surrounds and a PDR-10 sub. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Leigh

Your speakers are relatively efficient, so as long as your room is of average size and you don't listen at insane levels, any of the four receivers should be fine. One point to note though: the Outlaw 1050 is rated at 65Wpc but sounds much more powerful than that. Looking at the substantial 30-pound-plus weight hints at the power supply within and the speaker-driving ability it possesses. The point is that you can't always look at the specifications alone. With a receiver or amplifier, look at the unit's weight, which will tell you a lot about the internal parts. A receiver/amplifier's mass is largely made up of the transformer, filter capacitors, and heatsinks. A heavier component typically means there's more beef inside, which translates well to your speakers' sound when you get the system up and running....Jeff Fritz

November 23, 2001

Editor,

I am very interested in purchasing the Denon AVR-5800 receiver. The thing is, I want to spend as little money on my home-theater system now, until I have a dedicated room vacant in my new home. But I would increase my budget for home-theater devices that I would be able to use in my dedicated home theater, like, for instance, a DVD player (Denon DVD-1600) and perhaps the A/V receiver (Denon AVR-5800).

I have been advised to purchase a Yamaha RX-V1000 and a Parasound amplifier, which has 5 x 220W RMS into 8 ohms. The dealer claims that these would by far improve my listening quality. My main speakers are a mere 85W into 8 ohms nominal, including the center-channel. The surround speakers will not be more than 120W. As you know, the Denon AVR-5800 has 170Wpc into 8 ohms. So will I really hear that much of a difference providing my speakers with 220W of RMS power as opposed to exactly double their power of 170W of RMS?

One more very important question about adding an external amplifier to the Denon AVR-5800: Will the two work together, or would adding an external amplifier disable the amplifier of the Denon? Is it possible to add an amp to the Denon and get it and the receiver to add their total power in one stream to the speakers?

Your advice is greatly appreciated.

Norman du Plessis

A large portion of the price of the Denon AVR-5800 ($3800) is the excellent amplifier section. 170W to all seven channels is substantial, and for many is the deciding factor in purchasing the unit. These days, processing power is relatively cheap in a receiver. In fact, if you compare the processing features of some of Denon's lower models, you will see even more up-to-date features than the AVR-5800 offers. So, if you plan to use an external power amp, I certainly would not pay for all that extra power -- power you would not be using with the external amp. If you decided to forego the amp and stick with the receiver, the AVR-5800 would be a good choice because of the comprehensive feature set and amplifier section. You can't "add" the power from two units into one stream, so I would avoid a dealer that suggested otherwise.

To sum up, I would try the Denon AVR-5800 alone, or a lower model in Denon's stable with the multichannel amp. Either should provide you with ample power to drive your speakers.

November 20, 2001

Editor,

A salesman showed me the Onkyo TS-DX595 that has an "All Stereo" format. It also had Pro Logic II. My question is: what is the implication of all-channel stereo (for CD music) and the importance of Pro Logic II in a receiver? The music I listen to is not loud. I am getting Bose AM-10 speaker system, so I need to consider the compatibility between Bose and the receiver.

Sada Shiv

Pro Logic II will create a surround environment similar to that of Dolby Digital, but from two-channel sources, such as your CDs. The other mode you mention simply channels stereo information to all the speakers, which is sometimes called a "party" mode because you have primary information anywhere you have speakers placed within the room. This could be beneficial for background listening when you are entertaining a large group of people, for example. They're both useful features and should pose no compatibility problems....Jeff Fritz

November 19, 2001

Editor,

I'm interested in buying a Denon AVR-3802 or AVR-4802. My speakers are all Dynaudio (4 ohm). Is there a compatibility problem since Denon suggests speakers with a 6-ohm minimal impedance? Thank you.

Nikos Papaioannou

You very well may run into a problem here. Although you probably won't damage the receiver, you would likely trip the protection circuitry. The nominal impedance may dip below the specification, which would likely be too low for the Denon to drive safely, particularly if all the speakers are rated at 4 ohms. I'd look for a receiver capable driving lower impedances, or possibly a better solution would be a less expensive receiver with preamp outputs and a dedicated multichannel amplifier to drive the speakers. This is likely the best way to go in your situation....Jeff Fritz

November 18, 2001

Editor,

I really enjoyed your reviews of the B&K AVR307 and the Denon AVR-5800. They were very informative. Have you reviewed the Integra DTR-9.1? I have not been able to locate a review (done by you) on the web. Thanks.

Kris Talcott

I have not listened to the Integra 9.1 -- yet. We would love to do a review of this piece and will try to arrange it. I'm glad you enjoyed the Denon and B&K reviews too...Jeff Fritz

November 16, 2001

Editor,

Thank you for your review of the Paradigm System 2 from your Reviewers' Choice listing for 2000. I'm hoping to get your thoughts on an alternative, and cheaper, 5.1-channel sound system with four Atoms, a PDR-10, and a Paradigm center-channel speaker. Would the Atoms make viable alternatives to the ADP-170 dipoles in a small college dorm room?

Tim Allen

I think the Atoms would work fine all the way around for your situation. I actually prefer direct-radiating surrounds, so your choice would be ideal for a system based on that requirement and would also be perfectly matched in each location. Sounds like an excellent dorm system to me....Jeff Fritz

November 15, 2001

Editor,

I'm having a tough time picking in-wall speakers for my new construction, a 20' x 16' x 9' family room. I know they likely won't come close to box speakers, but do you have any recommendations with emphasis on good sound for two-channel audio but still with home-theater (five speakers) ability? They're obviously tough to audition, but I like the Parasound SA-35. My local dealers are pushing the Atlantic Technology System 20 or the M&K SW-95, neither of which are set up to hear.

Doug Franklin

I've found the rule of thumb with in-wall speakers is to choose from a manufacturer that also makes standalone speakers you like. Most companies use similar drivers, crossover topologies, and parts within their in-walls as those you will find in their conventional speakers. They have to be designed to meld with their conventional line because the in-walls typically augment an existing line. So the best you can do at times is to listen to something close to what you will be buying, and having the opportunity to hear a speaker made by the same folks is at least some hedge against buying something you can't live with. Lastly, I have heard some mighty fine in-walls as of late, with fairly advanced features like the ability to angle the tweeters for proper soundstaging....Jeff Fritz

November 13, 2001

To Roger Kanno,

I enjoyed reading your September article on power amplifiers, and I am considering this path to upgrade my home-theater system. How important is it to match the sonic properties of the amplifier with the existing receiver amplification if, say, I only purchase a stereo amp for the front speakers? If so, how do you match these properties?

Paul Pasic

I would say that matching the sonic characteristics of the speakers is more important (especially the center-channel with the left and right mains) than matching the amplification. That being said, you shouldn't use amplifiers that are grossly mismatched in power. For instance if you are using a modestly powered budget receiver, you probably shouldn't upgrade to a monster 200Wpc amplifier for the mains. Unless the power amplifier that you purchase is of a much higher quality than that in your receiver, you won't notice too much of a difference in the sound of the channels being driven by the different amps. Also, by relieving the receiver of the duties of driving the left and right mains, the available power to the center and surround channels and the sound quality of those channels should increase....Roger Kanno

November 12, 2001

Editor,

Thank you very much for the review of the Denon AVR-5800. It helped me greatly to make my decision. I ended up purchasing the Denon over the Pinoeer Elite 39TX and the Marantz SR-14EX.

Steven Berson

November 10, 2001

To Roger Kanno,

I have upgraded my Denon AVR-3300 setup with a Parasound HCA-1500 two-channel amp (running Paradigm Reference 60 front speakers). I read your "Upgrading Your Home-Theater System -- Part 1: Amplifiers" article, and I am having trouble identifying any improvements in stereo listening. I use an NAD C660 CD player/recorder as the main source, but I am really finding it difficult to hear any "real" improvement with regard to any performance characteristic (detail, soundstage, imaging, etc.). I want to think there is an improvement, but I just can't prove it to myself or another listener with any material I use. I don't think my speakers or CD player are a weak link here. Could it be cables? I have TARA Labs Prism interconnects from CD player to receiver and Monster Cable to the amp. Also using Kimber 8VS speaker cables. The Parasound amp is supposedly a pretty good amp (certainly better than the Denon's internal amps), and I also had previously demonstrated an NAD S200 ($1799 retail) amp with my same setup and still could not identify any major improvements. I read many reviews that tell stories of night-and-day differences with these and similar amps. Am I just tone deficient? What do you think, and can you recommend a good test or tests with specific material to identify what should be improvements? Thanks for the help, and I really enjoy your site.

Mike Kistler

I am at a loss to explain why you could not discern any "real" improvement by upgrading your Denon receiver with that Parasound amp. Perhaps you are looking for too big of an improvement, as you mentioned reading some reviews that tell of "night-and-day" differences. I think that is expecting a little too much. I have had some experience with the Paradigm Reference 60s and because they are fairly easy to drive, I suspect that they sound quite good with the AVR-3300 already, so adding a power amp may not result in a HUGE increase in performance. However, adding a quality power amp like the HCA-1500 should result in increased dynamics, for one thing. This means that very subtle details like fluttering of leaves or other low-level sounds will become more discernible, and very loud sounds such as explosions or kettle-drum whacks will play louder before distorting. Bass should also become tighter and faster. For instance those drum whacks should be less of a boomy droning and should have more of a recognizable attack and decay to the sound. The other aspects to the improvement in sound that you mentioned -- detail, soundstage, imaging, etc. -- are more subtle and are usually less noticeable.

I would suggest that you try playing some music tracks with complex bass and some DVD movies with wide dynamic range. You can check out the SoundStage! "Reference Discs" and Home Theater & Sound "Reference-Grade DVDs."...Roger Kanno

November 9, 2001

Editor,

I am using a pair of Martin Logan's CLS electrostatic loudspeakers. I'm satisfied with them, despite them never sounding as good as I hoped. This may be caused by the kind of amplification used.

Now, I'm going to HT. My plan is to maintain my CLSes as main front speakers because my priority is to listen to stereo classical and jazz music. I'll purchase any medium-priced speakers for the rest of the work. Here is my question: What is your recommendation for a A/V receiver if I decided replace my component-system? My budget is about $3000 USD. I wish for good HT and very, very good stereo sound with my old ML speakers.

Humberto Montoya

The Martin Logan CLS is a speaker that does require some hefty amplification, depending on the generation of the pair you possess. I would not try using a receiver to power these and the rest of your system. What I would recommend is buying a less expensive receiver that has preamp outputs, then purchasing a two-channel amplifier to drive the front speakers while letting the receiver handle your surrounds and center channel. This approach will allow you to properly power the ML speakers for both home-theater and two-channel use, while giving you the needed processing and additional channels required to power a full surround system. You'll also get better sound. I'd split your budget into two equal halves, and spend each half on each respective component.

November 4, 2001

Editor,

I thoroughly enjoy your website(s), and I would like to suggest a product for review: any of the Monitor Audio Gold Reference speakers. Actually, I would love to see you review a complete home-theater package including Monitor Audio's new subwoofers and brand-spanking-new GRFX surround speakers. A comparison to Monitor's Silver series would be nice (because many are probably somewhat familiar with these and not with any of the Gold series). And maybe you could also compare them also to other "very nice" stuff, such as the Thiels or Mirage HDT series.

Thanks for listening.

Mike Kistler

Good suggestion! We will look into reviewing Monitor's latest offerings, and see what we can do about a relevant comparison like you suggest....Jeff Fritz

November 3, 2001

Editor,

I'm interested in buying a Denon AVR-3600 from a friend. I already have a Bose Accoustimass 10 speaker system. Are these two compatible and complementary?.

Juan Sebastian

The AVR-3600 is an older product that has been discontinued by Denon. If memory serves, it does have Dolby Digital and possibly DTS. For a basic system, it should mate well with the Bose speakers. I would not pay even close to full retail though, as it is likely several years old and lacks the latest processing modes such as Dolby Pro Logic II. If you can pick it up for a bargain and want a basic 5.1 system, it should be a solid piece....Jeff Fritz

November 2, 2001

To Jeff Fritz,

I very much enjoyed your review of the Denon AVR-5800, and I have similar concerns to what's stated. I currently have a Denon PMA-2000R integrated amp (two channel), and while only rated at 80Wpc, it also boasts absurd current capabilities, something like 120 amps to the output stage. It weighs 45 pounds. I don't want to lose power moving to something like this on the front main channels, because I do a lot of audiophile-style two-channel audio.

The integrated amp gives me 100dB+ nominal output if I want it, and not distorted either. All this with my itty-bitty 87.5dB Fuselier speakers (5-ohm load). They're flat to 28Hz. I noticed the AVR-5800 is rated into 8 and into 6, and not into 5 or 4 ohms, but it doesn't sound like a big risk to me.

I know the watts-per-channel rating is higher. But do you think the AVR-5800 has as much power for my front two speakers? Thanks very much for your time in reading this.

Mark G. Meyers

I think you would be just fine with the AVR-5800. It has plenty of power for all but the most complex systems. One point to remember, when you are listening in two-channel mode, there will be even more headroom available from the Denon's power supply. This should increase your available power to a greater degree than what is possible during home-theater listening. Also, keep in mind the AVR-5800 has preamp outputs for all channels. You have the option of keeping a dedicated amp on the front channels as an upgrade down the road, if you feel the need....Jeff Fritz

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